What Counts Episode 1: What do relationships have to do with math?
[Transcript]
Abi
So I had her 10th through 12th. I'll never forget it the first couple of weeks I had her class and I didn't know how to add and subtract negative numbers.
Danielle LeCourt
This is Abi. She grew up in Fort white Florida, and today she's a college sophomore studying political science and pre law. But back in middle school, math was starting to slip away from her, until she landed in Celena Crews' 10th grade math class.
Danielle LeCourt
Had you had a teacher between seventh grade and 10th grade? Notice that you struggled with that?
Abi
No, and I just kind of got by with not knowing how to do it. I don't know how, but I managed to.
Danielle LeCourt
Think about that for a second. Years of math classes, countless tests, and no one saw what Abi was missing, until one teacher took the time to really see her. What made the difference for Abi wasn't another worksheet. It was a relationship, a teacher who noticed, who cared, who connected, and that raises a bigger question in a subject we usually think of as formulas and right answers. What do relationships have to do with math?
Danielle LeCourt
This is What Counts, a five-part podcast presented by Impact Florida and produced by De LeCourt as part of the Math Narrative Project. I'm Danielle LeCourt. Over the next five episodes, we'll explore what happens when relationships move from the margins to the center of math instruction, how they shape learning, change classrooms and even alter how students see themselves. We'll hear from teachers, students and education leaders across Florida, each with their own story of what happens when relationships come first, and in this first episode, we'll begin at the very heart of the tension. If relationships really matter this much, why aren't they treated like part of the curriculum?
At a recent Impact Florida event, we asked teachers directly, “How do building relationships with students impact your math instruction?”
Leesa Crescenzi
There is not time to not build relationships.
Adrienne Baytops Paul
Building relationships with students allows me to understand what their needs are, not just as a student in my room, but what they need conceptually, with regard to how they're processing information that I'm trying to help them understand.
Emily McCullough
I've seen it firsthand in my classroom. I remember my first years of teaching where I didn't make that a priority, and it was almost a setback. I realized, wow, I need to know who these kids are, and I need them to trust me, and I need them to win kind of win them over. And so what I found is the more that I've done that, and the more that I've implemented student voice in my classroom as like a critical component, the more I've seen my math instruction and my scores actually increase.
Tawana Rowe
According to the district, standards are first. According to students, relationships are first. So with that being said, I make time to build relationships.
Danielle LeCourt
Different words, same message. Relationships are not extra. They're the foundation for learning math. But if so many teachers believe that, why are math teachers continually told to focus on content first to understand that tension?
I talked with the teacher at the center of Abi's story, Celena Crews. Celena has been a teacher for more than 16 years. She started her career as an engineer in the space program, but when life pulled her back to North Florida, she found herself in a math classroom, and there she discovered something important.
Celena Crews
When I first started teaching math, you know, I went from working in the space program to a couple months later teaching remedial math to struggling students. That was eye opening to see the struggles that that different kids had. And you know, these kids, some of them, struggled to read. They struggled with number sense. And I remember a veteran teacher telling me, Don't worry about the basics. You know, if they don't have the basics, they're not going to pass you just need to kind of push forward. You know, I didn't have a background in teaching and being an educator, but I something about that didn't really sit right with me. And I was like, you know, I really think it is about the foundations. It is about the basics. It is about number sense, because everything else builds on that. And I'm not going to just leave those kids behind.
Danielle LeCourt
Celena knew what it was like to struggle.
Celena Crews
You know, I wasn't always the best student I you know, I had to work hard. I had my own struggles, for sure. I took calc 1 three times, and I, you know, I share that story with kids, and they're like, what? But you're really good at math. Exactly. Just because you struggle and something is hard doesn't mean you can't be good at it. It just means maybe you've got to work a little harder. You've got to figure out, you know, a different path to get there. Maybe you need to explain different something like that. So I feel like I really that's where I started to, like, find my niche in teaching.
Danielle LeCourt
For Celena, those struggles aren't obstacles. They're opportunities to connect to her. Building relationships is part of the work. Sometimes it looks like a handshake or a high five at the door. Sometimes it's taking a few minutes to check in, or just noticing when a student is quietly struggling. That's Celena's philosophy. Math class should feel like a place where students belong, not just a place where they crunch numbers. And for Abi, the power of that approach showed up in that moment when Celena noticed she couldn't add negative numbers.
Abi
I was sitting there, and she was coming around and checking our work, and she It was literally just about negative numbers and stuff. And she was like, you don't really got this. And I was like, No, I don't. And then she taught me it, literally. It took her, like, five seconds to tell me, teach me it through using a number line, by looking at it through a number line. And then, since then, like, it took her, like, two minutes to teach me how to add and subtract negative numbers. And after that, I was like, oh, yeah, I like this teacher.
Danielle LeCourt
One moment of care, one student who felt seen, and suddenly a door to math and to confidence swung wide open for Abi. Abi's story is powerful, and it echoes what I kept hearing from teachers across Florida. Relationships change the way math gets taught and the way it gets learned to understand what that looks like at a broader level, I called up Claire Riddell. Claire leads Impact Florida's Solving With Students cadre, the initiative behind this podcast.
Claire Riddell
So much of the work that we're doing is around the conditions that make learning optimal for students, and one of those conditions is a positive relationship and a trusting relationship with their teacher. And relationships can be formed in a lot of ways, but when we think about having open dialog and feedback that goes both ways between individuals that that ability to speak honestly and freely and provide feedback is something that seems really core to students trusting their teachers and building a relationship that is sustainable, that allows them to dig deeply into learning. It's a continual process. So oftentimes, teachers get a one and done survey, or they have someone come in and like, that's their annual evaluation, but this is like a constant conversation that they get to come back to with their students.
Danielle LeCourt
And the research backs her up. Claire pointed to studies showing that just one teacher who centers student voice can change outcomes, higher grades, more agency and fewer absences. She also noted a recent meta analysis that found the same strong relationships fuel learning, especially for students too often left behind. What ties all this together is a word Claire kept emphasizing: conversation. Relationships don't live in a single moment or an annual evaluation, they grow when feedback flows back and forth, when teachers and students keep talking and adjusting together. But the challenge is that school systems often aren't designed for constant conversation, the pacing guides, the standards, the tests, those often leave little room for the kind of relationship building that teachers say make the biggest difference. Back at the Impact Florida event, math teachers explained the tension.
Celena Crews
Do you feel like you have time to build relationships in a typical school day? Why or why not?
Emily McCullough
You know, in years past, I would say no, but. But more recently, I would say, you know you make, you make time for what's important to you.
Kim Bishop
I don't think there's enough time in the school day for to build the relationships that I want to build. I have to do that in the off hours. I do that at extracurricular activities. I go to their games. I go to their club things. Fortunately, my kids are also usually there, so it's, it's a win, win, but they appreciate seeing you there.
Jennifer Wilkie
I feel like it is so challenging to be able to do that in a math classroom because of all of the other additional requirements that we do have, but it has to be, cardio has to be the first thing that we make time for, even beyond all the other standards that we're needing to teach.
Danielle LeCourt
That's the rub. The message from teachers is clear. Her that relationships matter, but the message from the system is just as clear, keep moving, cover more, and living in that tension can wear teachers down. I was ready to quit. That's Anna Stewart. Anna had been teaching math for many years. She was dedicated. She loved her students, and she loved the subject, but somewhere along the way, the joy had drained out, the pressure to cover standards, the constant pacing calendars, the weight of seeing kids struggle, it was exhausting, and she started to wonder if she could keep doing it.
Anna Stewart
That year was kind of my make or break here, when I first began teaching, I was so passionate. I feel like teachers, after a certain amount of time, you start to burn out, especially if you give 100% every day, and then you have to come home and you have to cook and you have to do your own children like you burn out.
Danielle LeCourt
So she tried something different. She turned to her students, not to correct them, not to grade them, but to ask them questions. What do you notice? How do you see this problem? What helps you learn? What can I do better? And what came back to her wasn't silence or shrugs. She got real answers from them. Students told her what confused them, what discouraged them and what made them feel capable and motivated? They showed her they wanted to be partners in the learning, not just passengers.
Anna Stewart
Going through the year, swallowing my pride, you know, having that growth mindset that we're going to get through this year. We're going to do it. My kids scored so high at the end in every single learning condition. And it was that aha moment that I was like, You know what? I've got this. And so that was kind of my turning point. It was my third year in middle school, and I was like, I can do this. I got my fire back if they know that you hear them and you're willing to change what you're doing on a daily basis to suit their needs. They are 100% going to put forth the effort, and they're going to strive to do their absolute best.
Danielle LeCourt
Again. Here's Claire Riddell.
Claire Riddell
We've seen this really interesting correlation between asking really hard questions of our teaching, of our students and teachers thinking and feeling that their participation is actually increasing their desire to stay in the classroom and be committed to the profession that they love, which seems at the outset like a little bit of an oxymoronic thing. It seems a little bit counterintuitive that getting hard feedback helps teachers be more committed. What teachers continue to tell us is that they feel a sense of recommitment to the profession that they just didn't have. And there's so many layers to why that works.
Danielle LeCourt
Which brings us back to the question we started with: what do relationships have to do with math? They make math land. They let a teacher spot the misconception no test ever caught. They shape how students see themselves as learners, and they're what sustain teachers long enough to keep doing the work and truthfully and unfortunately, they don't always fit neatly into pacing guides or test prep, but teachers like Celena and Anna, and students like Abi who felt the difference firsthand, show us that relationships aren't extra they're what make learning possible. And that's why we're talking about them here, because math isn't just about numbers, it's about the stories students tell themselves about what they can and can't do, and those stories are deeply emotional.
Next time on What Counts, we'll step directly into that emotional terrain and hear how math can make students and teachers feel powerful or crushed. This series is produced by De LeCourt. I'm Danielle LeCourt. Thanks for listening.
